So as you can see this is a joint initiative which I think illustrates very well the unity we have entering these sad and tragic days and we are very pleased to see you and thank you once again and for our partners. Let me now introduce Professor Adam Czarnota, who was born in Poland, and educated in Poland, in Torun, the city of Nicholas Copernicus, who was Polish too, and he is currently a coordinator of The Centre of [garbled] Studies of Law at NSW University, and we are extremely pleased to have him with us and we will listen with interest to his speech.

Link to: Katyñ - Przeklête miejsce by J. Moska³a (in Polish)

Link to: The Catastrophes of Katyn - some questions

Prof. Adam Czarnota

Thank you very much. I am not a very good public speaker. I have to confess I am just an academic. So I need to account also this business of this special moment of this special occasion and unfortunately I ask people apologies but I will read my paper and just not speak as it seems to me in this situation in this sort of mourning situation, that it's easier for me. So when I , when the people from Monash University rang me and asked me if I would be willing to say something about Katyn. This catastrophe occurred just two weeks ago. I asked myself what sort of perspective I could adopt. [garbled] whether I had any special insight. Of course not, so what I tried to do is I am going to share with you this process of my thinking to make a meaning, a meaning of this catastrophe, which happened in Katyn ten days ago. So this type of presentation, oration, belongs to the difficult category of funeral orations. Usually, full of tastes, self delusion and denial. Such orations are in danger of political calculation, personal retaliations and narcissism. And of course an attempt to achieve a good society. I keep in mind all of this in my short presentation which all of this permeates.

Consul General Daniel Gromann

Since the 10th of April, 2010, in the last days, all Poles in the motherland as well as abroad live in shock, I am sure. Just a few days ago, the President and his wife all together ninety six souls of other leaders of public life in Poland representing a broad political spectrum, were buried. We Poles experienced the fragility of life and pain of permanent loss. Each of us asked the question 'what is the meaning of this unprecedented catastrophe?' Each of us is giving a different, but I believe in some ways, compatible answers. For our national community the catastrophe of the Presidential aircraft in Smolensk, Smolensk airfield, is not just any kind of catastrophe. It happened at a peculiar time and peculiar place. This place and timing determine its meaning as was mentioned by Mr Ambassador. It was put recently in the Polish newspapers that elites died paying homage to the elites who died seventy years ago. We all feel that such a loss, unable to find the public words for what is happening to us, for what left us speechless.

The nation lost its symbols, and what is the next 'why' is why we feel such a loss. This tragedy has three dimensions. Individual - personal, national, and institutional. I want to address in my speech these three dimensions. It happened that I knew of just a few people who were present who died in this catastrophe, but I was not that close to them. When the people talk about the individual, personal dimension of the catastrophe, we have to think about the people who lost their loved ones, those close ones, and this simply in such categories only one way. It's to be silent. At the same time we can't be silent. We are in the process of mourning. It means this is sometimes an internal contradiction between be silent because it's an unspeakable tragedy. On the other hand we try to be, to be forced even to speak publicly in order to commemorate those who lost their life. So by speaking not only do we share our faith, our loss, but it also confirms our identity in the most universal way, as sensitive human beings and also as members of the national community for whom the loss was to be some specific, not only in the universal meaning. A meaning connected with a time and place in which the catastrophe occurred, but also connected with the peculiarities of the role played by those who have permanently departed from our lives.

Prof. Adam Czarnota (on right) with Ambassador Andrzej Jaroszynski

At the same time, we have to be aware of the danger involved in speaking of their death in the way of their death. The danger of using their death, despite one's own intentions. Using them for our own ends and purposes. So speaking in mourning of death is a necessity but a necessity connected with danger. Therefore speaking must be full of tact, taste and ethical responsibility. In the case of this tragedy there is an enormous danger still hanging above us of personal and political use of these deaths in order to score points and gain some political benefits. This danger exist on all spectra of political opinion and public life. It not only belongs to the left or to the right or centre. It is across the total political spectrum. Listening to some English views on reading the newspapers on a few occasions, I get a feeling that all those wanted to get extra force from the deaths and turn them against those still alive.

The other danger, is the danger of narcissism. Of speaking of one's own relations of those who died is the danger of the appropriation of them and talking not about them but thinking of oneself. So what are the specificities besides this universal danger of this loss, this tragedy? What happened near Smolensk is unprecedented in the history of peaceful times. Never have so many political leaders, civil servants of the highest rank, religious leaders, the whole command of the army died together on the site of the [garbled]. Just to show the size. The President and his wife; the Deputy Foreign Minister, Andrzej Kremer; The Commissioner for Human Rights, the Polish Ombudsman, Dr Janusz Kochnowski; the leading Speaker of the Lower House of the Parliament, Mr Putra; the leading speaker of the Upper House, Mrs Bochenek; military chief of staff, General Franczisek Gagor; the Governor of the Central Bank, Slawomir Skrzypak. That's to mention only those maybe most important names, but a few of them.

All of them lost their lives in this catastrophe, that happened when they were on the road to commemorate the seventieth anniversary of the Katyn massacre. The massacre of Polish officers on Stalin's command has been for Poles a symbol of Stalin's crime and a symbol of the fate of our country due to the Stalin-Hitler pact. Poland underwent many tragedies during World War 2. The wiping out of millions of citizens and the genocidal murder of [garbled] and fathers, murder of the Polish-Jewish population. The destruction of our cities. But the Katyn massacre symbolises a tragedy of a unique sort. A systematic elimination of the Nation's elites.

Discussion: Stefan Wisniowski

Poles always ask themselves and others what is the meaning of the death of so many of their sons in the Katyn forest. There is no one answer to such a question but without any doubt this death in Katyn forest seventy years ago provided us with a strong bond, a bond of our national community and also our bond with Poland. In the last two weeks this bond has been reconfirmed by the tragic loss of our President and our elite as was noted by one of the distinguished sociologists. Remember it was the first time since 1989 when the word 'elite' has been used in the not pejorative but in the positive sense So that Polish society, the people from the left and from the centre, and from the right were lost. The leaders of civil society such as Mrs Anna Walentynowicz. the President of the Polish Bar Association, [garbled] and the three military chaplains from the Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox Church. It shows that there was a representation of the entire Polish society. Naturally the focus in mourning and coping with rites has been on the President and First Lady.

The President represented the Polish State and his [garbled]. The President is not the first Civil Servant, but he is a representative of the State and representing its dignity. The President has been elected in a universal election. His Constitutional position and legitimacy, as stipulated in the Constitution of the Republic of Poland, is very high. This particular President, Lech Kaczynski, elected as the third President in three elections since 1999, represents something more. He, like the majority of those who died on the plane, represent a generation of people who devoted their life to making Poland an independent and free country. The generation of the Solidarity movement. A generation of hope and a generation of these people who tirelessly devoted their lives to build the institutions of new Poland. The President and his companions from the seventieth anniversary of the Katyn massacre represent a generation of founding mothers and fathers of the post communist, free democratic Poland.

Now we will move to these Institutional elements. For some sociologists [garbled] must take participation in the mourning is a sort of a Polish specialty. They made a comparison between the situation after the death of John Paul II and now after the tragedy of 10th of April, 2010. I disagree with those [garbled]. Seems to me that there is a crucial difference. The first one, the death of John Paul II, seven years ago was sort of a national recollection, a reflection, but a reflection of believers. Those individuals who made the Nation. Now we have a true participation in martyrdom rites that constitute an expression of identity and belonging. It is the confirmation of belonging to the nation of Polish society and confirmation of the Polish State as was put recently by another sociologist [garbled] she claimed what happened during this mourning was an appropriation of the State by its citizens.

More than two hundred thousand people took part in the last farewell of the President and his wife. Between them were Catholics and Agnostics, the young and the old which means that within these two hundred thousand people was a representation of the entire Polish society. It happened that twenty years of atomisation under harsh economical times, when the social bonds were severely loosened, if not partly destroyed, this death of part of the Polish elites provided us, the Polish nation with an opportunity for a continuation of who we are. The death was a test of psychological character from the national point of view. These deaths proved that every [garbled] had an interest in the proper perspect. It is therefore not an accident that nearly two hundred thousand people participated in the funeral rites of the President's death of the [garbled] and the First Lady. We should ask these who participated in the funeral of others in death in Warsaw and outside of Warsaw.

The tragedy near the Katyn forest showed paradoxically how strong the Polish society and the Polish State are. Such a tragedy, losing so many people occupying top positions within the civil society, as well as in the State, will always have an influence on the operation and function of the institutions. In this case it showed that the work done by those who died, their work on institution building of the State and also of the institutions with civil society as more proof . The institutions of the new independent Polish State, just twenty years old, has passed a very severe test. The institutions functioned without any problems. The transmission of power went very smoothly according to Constitutional provisions. The armed forces very quickly replaced people in the highest positions of command. The democratic procedures worked seamlessly.

All of this confirmed that what is quite often called post communist democracy in the pejorative sense, with the implication that the second rank type of democracy, is in reality a well established and consolidated democracy. As was observed in the New York Times in this citation, it was written by Robert Cohen "It is this Poland that is now at peace with its neighbours but it is now at peace with its neighbours and stable. It is this Poland that has joined Germany in the European Union. It is this Poland that has just seen the very symbols of its tumultuous history between the Gdansk dock worker, Anna Walentynowicz and former President Ryszard Kaczarowski, go down in a Soviet made jet and responded with dignity according to the rule of law.

There is another opinion which was sent to me by my Rumanian friend, Dr Bogdan [garbled]. He wrote to me. My empathy. 'The Poles bear themselves very decently and with dignity under the circumstances'. As we will see there are two opinions, one from the West and one from the East, but both these observations come from the opposite sides, one from the so called West and East as I mentioned, but both stress the same points. The institutions and society as well as political class in the situation of crisis showed maturity and did it despite national mourning. We are proud of it and we are thankful to those who died for the fruits of their work.

Always there is room for improvement. But the first fundamentally critical situation did not shake the institutions of the State. Paradoxically, President Lech Kaczynski became the first person from the Third Republic, which he so criticised, and quite often rightly, who reached a national pantheon. Poles should be and they are proud of their new State. New State institutions which in such an extraordinary situation not only functioned as they are supposed to, but were able to undertake more than routine functions, such as organising funerals, looking after the work of the families of the dead and organising very important State business.

Now let's move onto the problem of the political class. Since 1989 the political class in Poland has been very heavily criticised. What I mentioned before in the situation of crisis of [garbled] situations, the political class has passed the exam in this area. They behaved with maturity. So [garbled] of maturity has also been shown by this political class. This very often criticised political class were involved in dividing society and not always really involved in the realisation of public truth, in the situation of crisis showed its own maturity.

Hopefully this tragedy which [garbled] the people from this class will have an influence on the change of political culture. As was recently written by [garbled] in his last article [garbled] in Polish political public debate is rather on the very low note. The first signs hardly seems to me are quite promising. For the first time [garbled] as for instance the moving words of Adam Michnik, about the late President, and what's more important, his apologies for expressing too harsh a criticism in the past. The disappearance from the public space of such people as the Deputy [garbled]. Of course this picture is not perfect but it has radically improved.

Now after the political class what about society. It seems to me the biggest maturity officially has been shown by the average men and women of Poland by citizens from different walks of life. The people rediscovered their identity and they rediscovered community. In this time of national mourning individuals engaged in personal and private interests transformed themselves into citizens, willing to participate personally in the expression in public of what is important for us, for them. This exchange took place on many layers and in different generations.

What did impress not only participants but also observers from outside, is the patriotism, especially of the young people. The generation which looked as lost. The generation of those who entered their maturity of adult life after 1989. This generation shows that they participated in this public mourning. An example for instance, thirty thousand scouts who tirelessly tried to help people [garbled] who were paying their last respects to the Presidential couple.

So what about the future? Always when we ask about the meaning of death we look not only to the past but also to the future. The situation in the present, put the future in a different light. Let me look at three points. First, first of all it looks as though this tragedy near the Katyn forest has already had an impact on the Polish/Russian reconciliation, discussed by Mr Ambassador. But I want to talk not about the official or top down reconciliation, which means the reconciliation between the institutions of the State. I want to talk about the reconciliation process as the expressions of sympathy by the Russian citizens.

Some people wrote from Poland in the [garbled] put my attention to the You Tube, and the entry there, especially to the song, poem actually which was written by one of the top Russian poets [garbled] and the comments written there in English, in Russian and also in French. It seems to me on the bottom level, the grass roots level, there is really that element of reconciliation going on. And of course that necessary element for reconciliation is the truth. Decision of the public screening of the film Katyn in the prime time in the Russian television [garbled] a very important show.

Now [garbled] point number two. It looks as though these deaths will have an influence on the political culture in Poland. In the coming Presidential election will show to confirm it or not, but it's so far in all those replacements as such, of the people who died, replacements of those positions is based on a considered [garbled] in the discussion in the opposition and will impart [garbled] So I want to believe this tragedy will influence profoundly the political culture in Poland. So, in other words, experience of trauma will trigger creation of a new public spirit in Poland.

Last, but of course not least, Polish citizens have woken up. After twenty years of being the object of the State, and too busy with the activity of surviving economically, they woke up despite all the propaganda. They discovered they do not want to be objects and that they are able to take their fate into their hands and I do believe that soon we will discover this in political life in Poland. The moment is necessary and the same time full of danger. What we have to remember is that those dead can live only in us and through us. It means that memory is their ticket for life. They will live as long as we remember.

But there are two kinds of memory. First is individual memory of people which is very important of course but the second is Institutional memory, which is also if not more important form the point of view of public life. I do think that the best remembrance of these ninety six souls will be if their ambition and effort to rebuild Poland after communism as a healthy democratic community came to be realised in the everyday working of Polish institutions. There is a profound challenge to these who remain. My hope and my now confident hope is that we will definitely rise to that challenge. Thank you.

Concluding remarks of Consul Daniel Gromann

Thank you very much Professor Czarnota for this very insightful commentary from somehow different ranges and perspectives and as I said earlier we are going to take a few questions, three questions in each round.

Recorded and transcribed by Felix Molski.